Discussion:
Anakin and Obi-Wan Conversation After Return Of The Jedi: Spoilers For Episodes 3 and 6
(too old to reply)
Tim Bruening
2005-06-21 21:29:07 UTC
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After Anakin dies and turns into a Jedi ghost, I expect the following
conversation:

Anakin: Obi-Wan, I was told by the Emperor that I had killed Padme with
the force choke. How in the galaxy did she give birth to Luke and
Leia??????? She hadn't yet given birth when I choked her!!!!!

Obi-Wan: Your choke hold did not kill her. We don't know what did.
Oddly enough, the medical droid said that there was nothing medically
wrong with her. She had simply lost her will to live! Thankfully, we
were able to get your kids out before she died.

From there, they should wonder if Palpatine drain her life force, and
whatever happened to her spirit (did it get trapped by the Emperor?).
Peter West
2005-06-21 22:50:22 UTC
Permalink
She died of a broken heart, moron.
Lefty Skywalker
2005-06-22 01:26:53 UTC
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Post by Peter West
She died of a broken heart, moron.
His young ones were killed; for they could not depart,
And their mother did die of a broken heart.

(Yes, Bill, I know it's not Christmas.)
--
Daniel O. Miller

"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the
fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true
science. Whosoever does not know it and can no longer marvel, is as good
as dead, and his eyes are dimmed." - Albert Einstein

WWYD? (-o-) <*>

(hotmail addy is a red herring; I'm darth dot lefty at gee em ay eye el)
Tim Bruening
2005-06-22 01:30:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter West
She died of a broken heart, moron.
But shouldn't the sight of her two babies have healed her heart enough
to restore her will to live?
Anybody
2005-06-22 06:30:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Peter West
She died of a broken heart, moron.
But shouldn't the sight of her two babies have healed her heart enough
to restore her will to live?
We've been through all this before. :-\

Not necessarily. Post-natal depression and pre-natal depression can
have a VERY strong influence on mothers, especially first-time mothers.
Sometimes they kill themselves and / or their children.

Even if she didn't have that, Padmé had just lost the one thing she
needed: Anakin - his love, his trust, etc. People who loose that can
often give up the will to live as well, and that includes young mothers
who loose their husbands, even if they've got children.

Such things DO happen in "real life".
Captain Murphy
2005-06-22 11:53:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Peter West
She died of a broken heart, moron.
But shouldn't the sight of her two babies have healed her heart enough
to restore her will to live?
I think you mean, "But shouldn't the sight of her two babies have healed
her heart enough to restore her will to live, moron?"
Jaime M. de Castellvi
2005-06-21 22:53:00 UTC
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On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:29:07 -0700, Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
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After Anakin dies and turns into a Jedi ghost, I expect the following
Anakin: Obi-Wan, I was told by the Emperor that I had killed Padme with
the force choke. How in the galaxy did she give birth to Luke and
Leia??????? She hadn't yet given birth when I choked her!!!!!
Obi-Wan: Your choke hold did not kill her. We don't know what did.
Oddly enough, the medical droid said that there was nothing medically
wrong with her. She had simply lost her will to live! Thankfully, we
were able to get your kids out before she died.
From there, they should wonder if Palpatine drain her life force, and
whatever happened to her spirit (did it get trapped by the Emperor?).
Great troll! Hoh, hoh, hoh!

Cheers,

Jaime
Anybody
2005-06-22 00:14:44 UTC
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Post by Tim Bruening
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After Anakin dies and turns into a Jedi ghost, I expect the following
Anakin: Obi-Wan, I was told by the Emperor that I had killed Padme with
the force choke. How in the galaxy did she give birth to Luke and
Leia??????? She hadn't yet given birth when I choked her!!!!!
Obi-Wan: Your choke hold did not kill her. We don't know what did.
Oddly enough, the medical droid said that there was nothing medically
wrong with her. She had simply lost her will to live! Thankfully, we
were able to get your kids out before she died.
It is possible for babies to be "born" after the mother has died, even
weeks after thanks to modern medicine keeping the mother "alive".
Tim Bruening
2005-06-22 01:34:16 UTC
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Post by Anybody
Post by Tim Bruening
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After Anakin dies and turns into a Jedi ghost, I expect the following
Anakin: Obi-Wan, I was told by the Emperor that I had killed Padme with
the force choke. How in the galaxy did she give birth to Luke and
Leia??????? She hadn't yet given birth when I choked her!!!!!
Obi-Wan: Your choke hold did not kill her. We don't know what did.
Oddly enough, the medical droid said that there was nothing medically
wrong with her. She had simply lost her will to live! Thankfully, we
were able to get your kids out before she died.
It is possible for babies to be "born" after the mother has died, even
weeks after thanks to modern medicine keeping the mother "alive".
But it was quite a while before Obi-Wan could get medical help for Padme. He
first had to fry Anakin! If she had died when Anakin put the choke on her,
wouldn't the babies have died from oxygen lack?
Wahdidah
2005-06-21 18:50:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Bruening
But it was quite a while before Obi-Wan could get medical help for Padme. He
first had to fry Anakin! If she had died when Anakin put the choke on her,
wouldn't the babies have died from oxygen lack?
Guess we're all, myself included, forgetting the critical element
surrounding Padme's death. Something so simple, yet so totally
obvious, is directly responsible for Padme's death.
And what is that cause? Are you ready?? It's a movie! A work of fiction.
George Lucas could have had her die as a result of one of her hair
pieces being too tight and it would totally fly, b/c it's not
real.............otherwise, we'd be seeing many more "Darth Vader' types
walking around in their medical containment units.
Anybody
2005-06-22 06:25:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Anybody
Post by Tim Bruening
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After Anakin dies and turns into a Jedi ghost, I expect the following
Anakin: Obi-Wan, I was told by the Emperor that I had killed Padme with
the force choke. How in the galaxy did she give birth to Luke and
Leia??????? She hadn't yet given birth when I choked her!!!!!
Obi-Wan: Your choke hold did not kill her. We don't know what did.
Oddly enough, the medical droid said that there was nothing medically
wrong with her. She had simply lost her will to live! Thankfully, we
were able to get your kids out before she died.
It is possible for babies to be "born" after the mother has died, even
weeks after thanks to modern medicine keeping the mother "alive".
But it was quite a while before Obi-Wan could get medical help for Padme. He
first had to fry Anakin! If she had died when Anakin put the choke on her,
wouldn't the babies have died from oxygen lack?
She didn't die from being choked. The medical guys said they had fixed
all her injuries, but she was still dying and they didn't know why -
she died of a broken heart.
Tim Bruening
2005-06-23 07:23:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anybody
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Anybody
Post by Tim Bruening
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After Anakin dies and turns into a Jedi ghost, I expect the following
Anakin: Obi-Wan, I was told by the Emperor that I had killed Padme with
the force choke. How in the galaxy did she give birth to Luke and
Leia??????? She hadn't yet given birth when I choked her!!!!!
Obi-Wan: Your choke hold did not kill her. We don't know what did.
Oddly enough, the medical droid said that there was nothing medically
wrong with her. She had simply lost her will to live! Thankfully, we
were able to get your kids out before she died.
It is possible for babies to be "born" after the mother has died, even
weeks after thanks to modern medicine keeping the mother "alive".
But it was quite a while before Obi-Wan could get medical help for Padme. He
first had to fry Anakin! If she had died when Anakin put the choke on her,
wouldn't the babies have died from oxygen lack?
She didn't die from being choked. The medical guys said they had fixed
all her injuries, but she was still dying and they didn't know why -
she died of a broken heart.
Some fans have expressed skepticism that Padme the strong willed Queen and Senator
would curl up and die no matter what!

Some fans have speculated that Palpatine drained her life force, possibly to save
Anakin.

Also, shouldn't the sight of her babies have restored her will to live?
H
2005-06-23 07:32:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Anybody
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Anybody
Post by Tim Bruening
Obi-Wan: Your choke hold did not kill her. We don't know what did.
Oddly enough, the medical droid said that there was nothing medically
wrong with her. She had simply lost her will to live! Thankfully, we
were able to get your kids out before she died.
It is possible for babies to be "born" after the mother has died, even
weeks after thanks to modern medicine keeping the mother "alive".
But it was quite a while before Obi-Wan could get medical help for Padme. He
first had to fry Anakin! If she had died when Anakin put the choke on her,
wouldn't the babies have died from oxygen lack?
She didn't die from being choked. The medical guys said they had fixed
all her injuries, but she was still dying and they didn't know why -
she died of a broken heart.
Some fans have expressed skepticism that Padme the strong willed Queen and Senator
would curl up and die no matter what!
Some fans have speculated that Palpatine drained her life force, possibly to save
Anakin.
Also, shouldn't the sight of her babies have restored her will to live?
She should have died from a vicious force choke, but held on to life for
the sake of her babies until they were born. Much more believable.

H.
Brodieman
2005-06-23 09:45:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by H
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Anybody
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Anybody
Post by Tim Bruening
Obi-Wan: Your choke hold did not kill her. We don't know what did.
Oddly enough, the medical droid said that there was nothing medically
wrong with her. She had simply lost her will to live! Thankfully, we
were able to get your kids out before she died.
It is possible for babies to be "born" after the mother has died, even
weeks after thanks to modern medicine keeping the mother "alive".
But it was quite a while before Obi-Wan could get medical help for Padme. He
first had to fry Anakin! If she had died when Anakin put the choke on her,
wouldn't the babies have died from oxygen lack?
She didn't die from being choked. The medical guys said they had fixed
all her injuries, but she was still dying and they didn't know why -
she died of a broken heart.
Some fans have expressed skepticism that Padme the strong willed Queen and Senator
would curl up and die no matter what!
Some fans have speculated that Palpatine drained her life force, possibly to save
Anakin.
Also, shouldn't the sight of her babies have restored her will to live?
She should have died from a vicious force choke, but held on to life for
the sake of her babies until they were born. Much more believable.
H.
Agreed. Lucas should change the Medical droids dialogue to "I am sorry, her
injuries sustained are fatal" or something along those lines.
Anybody
2005-06-23 21:17:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Bruening
Some fans have expressed skepticism that Padme the strong willed Queen and
Senator would curl up and die no matter what!
Some fans have speculated that Palpatine drained her life force, possibly
to save Anakin.
Not very likely.
Post by Tim Bruening
Also, shouldn't the sight of her babies have restored her will to live?
Why?!? As some of us have repeatedly said, there are things like
post-natal depression that DO cause women to want to harm themselves
and / or their babies ... just Padmé seeing the babies means absolutely
nothing.

Besides which, Padmé had just lost the "love of her life" - something
VERY few people EVER find, especially in theses days of getting married
after knowing each other for two weeks and then getting divorced again
two weeks later (gee, what a surprise!).

Deep depression DOES make people do things that are completely out of
character and seem strange to others. If she had done something else
and survived, she would almost certainly latter regret it, but she had
a broken heart and she gave up fighting the injuries and medical
"fixing" and died anyway.
H
2005-06-23 22:54:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anybody
Post by Tim Bruening
Some fans have expressed skepticism that Padme the strong willed Queen and
Senator would curl up and die no matter what!
Some fans have speculated that Palpatine drained her life force, possibly
to save Anakin.
Not very likely.
Post by Tim Bruening
Also, shouldn't the sight of her babies have restored her will to live?
Why?!? As some of us have repeatedly said, there are things like
post-natal depression that DO cause women to want to harm themselves
After the birth, yes.
Post by Anybody
and / or their babies ... just Padmé seeing the babies means absolutely
nothing.
How many children do you have? Were you there when they were born? What
was their mother's reaction?

H.
John
2005-06-24 01:48:41 UTC
Permalink
.
I have another problem with what they did with Padme at the end. I
remember from Return of the Jedi when Luke asks Leia about her mother.
Leia has "Feelings of sadness" who is she referring to if Padme is dead
before Leia becomes old enough to be aware...

-John C
Brodieman
2005-06-24 01:53:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by John
.
I have another problem with what they did with Padme at the end. I
remember from Return of the Jedi when Luke asks Leia about her mother.
Leia has "Feelings of sadness" who is she referring to if Padme is dead
before Leia becomes old enough to be aware...
-John C
Damn, that ones not come up before! Well spotted.
Jaime M. de Castellvi
2005-06-24 11:19:26 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 01:53:05 +0000 (UTC), Brodieman
Post by Brodieman
Post by John
.
I have another problem with what they did with Padme at the end. I
remember from Return of the Jedi when Luke asks Leia about her mother.
Leia has "Feelings of sadness" who is she referring to if Padme is dead
before Leia becomes old enough to be aware...
-John C
Damn, that ones not come up before! Well spotted.
Could be a pre-natal sensing that Leia later puts into words. Both
babies look kinda wise, very much like "old souls"

Cheers,

Jaime
Brodieman
2005-06-24 11:42:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 01:53:05 +0000 (UTC), Brodieman
Post by Brodieman
Post by John
.
I have another problem with what they did with Padme at the end. I
remember from Return of the Jedi when Luke asks Leia about her mother.
Leia has "Feelings of sadness" who is she referring to if Padme is dead
before Leia becomes old enough to be aware...
-John C
Damn, that ones not come up before! Well spotted.
Could be a pre-natal sensing that Leia later puts into words. Both
babies look kinda wise, very much like "old souls"
Cheers,
Jaime
Yes, either that, or it could be a crock of shit =)
cloud dreamer
2005-06-24 01:55:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by John
.
I have another problem with what they did with Padme at the end. I
remember from Return of the Jedi when Luke asks Leia about her mother.
Leia has "Feelings of sadness" who is she referring to if Padme is dead
before Leia becomes old enough to be aware...
-John C
But which mother was she referring to...Padme or the Senator's wife?
Most likely the latter.

..
Brodieman
2005-06-24 01:56:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by cloud dreamer
Post by John
.
I have another problem with what they did with Padme at the end. I
remember from Return of the Jedi when Luke asks Leia about her mother.
Leia has "Feelings of sadness" who is she referring to if Padme is dead
before Leia becomes old enough to be aware...
-John C
But which mother was she referring to...Padme or the Senator's wife?
Most likely the latter.
..
I'll start the ball rolling shall I...
How could she be referring to Bail Organas wife if Luke asked her about her
"real" mother?
James Gassaway
2005-06-24 03:48:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brodieman
Post by cloud dreamer
Post by John
.
I have another problem with what they did with Padme at the end. I
remember from Return of the Jedi when Luke asks Leia about her mother.
Leia has "Feelings of sadness" who is she referring to if Padme is dead
before Leia becomes old enough to be aware...
-John C
But which mother was she referring to...Padme or the Senator's wife?
Most likely the latter.
..
I'll start the ball rolling shall I...
How could she be referring to Bail Organas wife if Luke asked her about her
"real" mother?
How would you expect a child to react if every time the subject of her
biological mother came up, everyone suddenly got quiet and sad?
--
"I reject your reality and substitute my own."
"Now, quack, damn you!"

Multiversal Mercenaries
You name it, we kill it. Any time, any reality.
Tim Bruening
2005-06-24 07:19:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by cloud dreamer
Post by John
.
I have another problem with what they did with Padme at the end. I
remember from Return of the Jedi when Luke asks Leia about her mother.
Leia has "Feelings of sadness" who is she referring to if Padme is dead
before Leia becomes old enough to be aware...
-John C
But which mother was she referring to...Padme or the Senator's wife?
Most likely the latter.
Luke asked about Leia's REAL mother!
Captain Murphy
2005-06-24 03:00:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by John
I have another problem with what they did with Padme at the end. I
remember from Return of the Jedi when Luke asks Leia about her mother.
Leia has "Feelings of sadness" who is she referring to if Padme is dead
before Leia becomes old enough to be aware...
Hey, here's a thought -- how about reading the other 200 existing threads
on this very question before starting a new one? For Christ's sake.
Bill Anderson
2005-06-24 03:01:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by John
.
I have another problem with what they did with Padme at the end. I
remember from Return of the Jedi when Luke asks Leia about her mother.
Leia has "Feelings of sadness" who is she referring to if Padme is dead
before Leia becomes old enough to be aware...
Somebody needs to submit the True Answer to this one for inclusion in
the RASSM FAQ.

So what is the True Answer? I'll give it a shot:

Leia was so strong in the Force that she remembered her own birth and
who was in the delivery room. The Force gave infant Leia the ability to
recognize physical beauty in her own mother, and to sense her sad
feelings. Wait, that's absurd. (Furthermore, if Leia really did
remember Padme, why didn't Luke remember too? Well, being a boy and
all, as soon as he was born he began fantasizing about kissing baby
sister and wasn't paying attention to Mom. Nah; even more absurd.)

OK, try this: Leia's adoptive mother was very beautiful and very sad
and died when Leia was so young that she didn't actually remember Mrs.
Organa -- only lovely feelings about her remained. So when Luke asked
about her *real* mother, Leia responded with misty memories of a
character we never actually met and who was felled by an early death
that was never explained. Wait, that's absurd too.

OK, then try this: When Luke asked about Leia's *real* mother he wasn't
thinking about their birth mother -- all he really wanted to know was
what it might have been like to have been raised by a mother and not
just an aunt. And Leia responded with memories of Mrs. Organa which ...
is still absurd.

So ... the RASSM FAQ should say something like this: Princess Leia's
claim in RotJ that she retains feelings about her *real* mother is an
unfortunate lapse in Star Wars story logic most likely caused by George
Lucas's decision to write the last half of his story before the first
half. The best way to treat Leia's statement is to repeat softly to
yourself three times, "These are not the explanations I'm looking for; I
can go about my business; I'll just move along."
--
Bill Anderson

I am the Mighty Favog
Anybody
2005-06-24 04:27:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Anderson
Post by John
.
I have another problem with what they did with Padme at the end. I
remember from Return of the Jedi when Luke asks Leia about her mother.
Leia has "Feelings of sadness" who is she referring to if Padme is dead
before Leia becomes old enough to be aware...
Somebody needs to submit the True Answer to this one for inclusion in
the RASSM FAQ.
Leia was so strong in the Force that she remembered her own birth and
who was in the delivery room. The Force gave infant Leia the ability to
recognize physical beauty in her own mother, and to sense her sad
feelings. Wait, that's absurd.
It's only "absurd" to people with no brains (and those who twist the
wording to make it seem "absurd").

Leia doesn't REMEMBER anything at all. During her dreams and quiet
times she has seen the past through her unknown / untrained Force
abilities and THOUGHT she was remembering events she had witnessed.
Yoda himself says that through the Force you will see the past and the
future.
Post by Bill Anderson
(Furthermore, if Leia really did remember Padme, why didn't Luke
remember too?
Luke doesn't "remember" because, again as Yoda says, he's always
concentrating on the future and doesn't take time to stop and smell the
poo-doo.

Plus girls usually have a stronger connection to their mothers than
boys do.



This is a solution makes sense and fits with what we already know.
Tim Bruening
2005-06-24 07:22:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anybody
Post by Bill Anderson
Post by John
.
I have another problem with what they did with Padme at the end. I
remember from Return of the Jedi when Luke asks Leia about her mother.
Leia has "Feelings of sadness" who is she referring to if Padme is dead
before Leia becomes old enough to be aware...
Somebody needs to submit the True Answer to this one for inclusion in
the RASSM FAQ.
Leia was so strong in the Force that she remembered her own birth and
who was in the delivery room. The Force gave infant Leia the ability to
recognize physical beauty in her own mother, and to sense her sad
feelings. Wait, that's absurd.
It's only "absurd" to people with no brains (and those who twist the
wording to make it seem "absurd").
Leia doesn't REMEMBER anything at all. During her dreams and quiet
times she has seen the past through her unknown / untrained Force
abilities and THOUGHT she was remembering events she had witnessed.
Yoda himself says that through the Force you will see the past and the
future.
Can a Jedi Master use the Force to send messages back in time or forward in
time?
Anybody
2005-06-24 22:52:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Anybody
Post by Bill Anderson
Post by John
.
I have another problem with what they did with Padme at the end. I
remember from Return of the Jedi when Luke asks Leia about her mother.
Leia has "Feelings of sadness" who is she referring to if Padme is dead
before Leia becomes old enough to be aware...
Somebody needs to submit the True Answer to this one for inclusion in
the RASSM FAQ.
Leia was so strong in the Force that she remembered her own birth and
who was in the delivery room. The Force gave infant Leia the ability to
recognize physical beauty in her own mother, and to sense her sad
feelings. Wait, that's absurd.
It's only "absurd" to people with no brains (and those who twist the
wording to make it seem "absurd").
Leia doesn't REMEMBER anything at all. During her dreams and quiet
times she has seen the past through her unknown / untrained Force
abilities and THOUGHT she was remembering events she had witnessed.
Yoda himself says that through the Force you will see the past and the
future.
Can a Jedi Master use the Force to send messages back in time or forward in
time?
Who said anything about "sending messages" let alone the silliness of
time travel??

Leia was simply seeing past events ... just like Luke saw his friends
suffering in Cloud City and Anakin pre-saw his mother and Padmé dying.
Doe John
2005-06-30 02:37:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by John
.
I have another problem with what they did with Padme at the end. I
remember from Return of the Jedi when Luke asks Leia about her mother.
Leia has "Feelings of sadness" who is she referring to if Padme is dead
before Leia becomes old enough to be aware...
-John C
I wondered exactly the same thing. When Anakin turns to the Darkside
to save Padme in childbirth, I expected her to live. I did not expect
her to die because of what you had brought up Leia's line in ROTJ.

My only explanation is that she was referring to her stepmother, wife
of Senator Organa. Lots of strain on wifey when your hubby is being
hunted down by Emperor Darth Fugly.
Anybody
2005-06-30 04:45:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Doe John
Post by John
I have another problem with what they did with Padme at the end. I
remember from Return of the Jedi when Luke asks Leia about her mother.
Leia has "Feelings of sadness" who is she referring to if Padme is dead
before Leia becomes old enough to be aware...
I wondered exactly the same thing. When Anakin turns to the Darkside
to save Padme in childbirth, I expected her to live. I did not expect
her to die because of what you had brought up Leia's line in ROTJ.
My only explanation is that she was referring to her stepmother, wife
of Senator Organa. Lots of strain on wifey when your hubby is being
hunted down by Emperor Darth Fugly.
No.

Luke specifically says her REAL mother and Leia knows precisely what
he's talking about.

It's most likely that Leia is thinking of "dreams" she's had via her
untrained Force abilities that she THINKS are real memories. Yoda
himself says that you can see the past and the future through the
Force.
Clams Canino
2005-06-30 05:20:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anybody
Post by Doe John
Post by John
I have another problem with what they did with Padme at the end. I
remember from Return of the Jedi when Luke asks Leia about her mother.
Leia has "Feelings of sadness" who is she referring to if Padme is dead
before Leia becomes old enough to be aware...
I wondered exactly the same thing. When Anakin turns to the Darkside
to save Padme in childbirth, I expected her to live. I did not expect
her to die because of what you had brought up Leia's line in ROTJ.
My only explanation is that she was referring to her stepmother, wife
of Senator Organa. Lots of strain on wifey when your hubby is being
hunted down by Emperor Darth Fugly.
No.
Luke specifically says her REAL mother and Leia knows precisely what
he's talking about.
It's most likely that Leia is thinking of "dreams" she's had via her
untrained Force abilities that she THINKS are real memories. Yoda
himself says that you can see the past and the future through the
Force.
To elaborate, Leia states she has *no real moemories* - just images and
feelings. Amazing how often this is brought up.....

-W
Anybody
2005-06-30 07:13:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clams Canino
Post by Anybody
Post by Doe John
Post by John
I have another problem with what they did with Padme at the end. I
remember from Return of the Jedi when Luke asks Leia about her mother.
Leia has "Feelings of sadness" who is she referring to if Padme is
dead before Leia becomes old enough to be aware...
I wondered exactly the same thing. When Anakin turns to the Darkside
to save Padme in childbirth, I expected her to live. I did not expect
her to die because of what you had brought up Leia's line in ROTJ.
My only explanation is that she was referring to her stepmother, wife
of Senator Organa. Lots of strain on wifey when your hubby is being
hunted down by Emperor Darth Fugly.
No.
Luke specifically says her REAL mother and Leia knows precisely what
he's talking about.
It's most likely that Leia is thinking of "dreams" she's had via her
untrained Force abilities that she THINKS are real memories. Yoda
himself says that you can see the past and the future through the
Force.
To elaborate, Leia states she has *no real moemories* - just images and
feelings. Amazing how often this is brought up.....
Even more amazing are that people don't want to believe it - unlike
many weird theories floating around, this one DOES fit with everything
we know and DOES make perfect sense. :-\
Captain Murphy
2005-06-30 12:05:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anybody
Even more amazing are that people don't want to believe it - unlike
many weird theories floating around, this one DOES fit with everything
we know and DOES make perfect sense. :-\
Sure it does, from an apologistic standpoint. From a realistic standpoint,
no newborn is going to understand the concepts of "sad" or "beautiful."
Clams Canino
2005-06-30 13:13:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Captain Murphy
Post by Anybody
Even more amazing are that people don't want to believe it - unlike
many weird theories floating around, this one DOES fit with everything
we know and DOES make perfect sense. :-\
Sure it does, from an apologistic standpoint. From a realistic standpoint,
no newborn is going to understand the concepts of "sad" or "beautiful."
Through the Force , things past and present you will see. Newborn isn't in
play here.

And ya, given the very nature of the films being shot out of order, a little
apologism with a positive perspective never hurts. If you assume "the
truth" is what GL tell us it is, it's easy to make the parts fit. Look for
trouble on purpose, and find it you will.

-W
Kimberly Knowles
2005-06-30 15:33:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Captain Murphy
Post by Anybody
Even more amazing are that people don't want to believe it - unlike
many weird theories floating around, this one DOES fit with everything
we know and DOES make perfect sense. :-\
Sure it does, from an apologistic standpoint. From a realistic standpoint,
no newborn is going to understand the concepts of "sad" or "beautiful."
And from a realistic standpoint there is no Darth Varder, the Force, and
Death Stars be we accept that because it's, oh yeah A STORY.

By the way who's to say she is remembering when she was a newborn? Force
"memories" appear whenever they appear.
Captain Murphy
2005-07-01 00:11:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kimberly Knowles
By the way who's to say she is remembering when she was a newborn? Force
"memories" appear whenever they appear.
'Cause after she was a newborn, she never saw Padme again. When the
memories appear isn't the issue -- it's the fact that she actually has
memories of Padme's mental state from the moment she was born.
Anybody
2005-07-01 06:56:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Captain Murphy
Post by Kimberly Knowles
By the way who's to say she is remembering when she was a newborn? Force
"memories" appear whenever they appear.
'Cause after she was a newborn, she never saw Padme again. When the
memories appear isn't the issue -- it's the fact that she actually has
memories of Padme's mental state from the moment she was born.
You're still under the silly impression that Leia actually remembers
... she doesn't remember anything. A newborn baby obviously can't
remember those events.

During the years after being born and talking to Luke she has had
"dreams" through the Force of the past BEFORE she was born. She THINKS
that she's remembering real events she witnessed because she doesn't
know about her untrained Force abilities and what they do. Leia herself
says she "remembers" only images and feelings.
David Johnston
2005-06-30 22:41:13 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 08:05:40 -0400, Captain Murphy
Post by Captain Murphy
Post by Anybody
Even more amazing are that people don't want to believe it - unlike
many weird theories floating around, this one DOES fit with everything
we know and DOES make perfect sense. :-\
Sure it does, from an apologistic standpoint. From a realistic standpoint,
no newborn is going to understand the concepts of "sad" or "beautiful."
Leia is not a newborn when she's asked.
Doe John
2005-06-30 22:56:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 08:05:40 -0400, Captain Murphy
Post by Captain Murphy
Post by Anybody
Even more amazing are that people don't want to believe it - unlike
many weird theories floating around, this one DOES fit with everything
we know and DOES make perfect sense. :-\
Sure it does, from an apologistic standpoint. From a realistic standpoint,
no newborn is going to understand the concepts of "sad" or "beautiful."
Leia is not a newborn when she's asked.
New theory. Since Leia was a spoiled overpriveleged Princess, I assume
she grew up being mothered by a Nanny. I have often read( or assumed)
that kids of Bluebloods sometime have more affection for the illegal
immigrant who raised them, then their actual biological mother.Leia's
nanny was an unwilling sex slave to the lustful urges of Senator
Organa, hence her sadness.

Or maybe George Lucas just fucked up.
Captain Murphy
2005-07-01 00:13:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Johnston
Post by Captain Murphy
Sure it does, from an apologistic standpoint. From a realistic standpoint,
no newborn is going to understand the concepts of "sad" or "beautiful."
Leia is not a newborn when she's asked.
I'm going to assume that's a joke.
Clams Canino
2005-07-01 02:33:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Captain Murphy
Post by David Johnston
Post by Captain Murphy
Sure it does, from an apologistic standpoint. From a realistic standpoint,
no newborn is going to understand the concepts of "sad" or "beautiful."
Leia is not a newborn when she's asked.
I'm going to assume that's a joke.
No, it's not. You are deliberatly being obtuse (or naturally dim?). Leia
does not tell us *when* she gets her "images and feelings" - but she *does*
tell us that they "are not memories really". Just how much more do you
need spelled out, and how big do the letter need to be?

-W
Captain Murphy
2005-07-01 02:49:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clams Canino
Post by Captain Murphy
Post by David Johnston
Leia is not a newborn when she's asked.
I'm going to assume that's a joke.
No, it's not. You are deliberatly being obtuse (or naturally dim?). Leia
does not tell us *when* she gets her "images and feelings" - but she *does*
tell us that they "are not memories really". Just how much more do you
need spelled out, and how big do the letter need to be?
So, have you been an arrogant ass your whole life, or has the anonymity of
the Internet allowed you to compensate for your personal inadequecy by
being needlessly rude to strangers for no apparent reason?
Clams Canino
2005-07-01 03:03:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Captain Murphy
Post by Clams Canino
Post by Captain Murphy
Post by David Johnston
Leia is not a newborn when she's asked.
I'm going to assume that's a joke.
No, it's not. You are deliberatly being obtuse (or naturally dim?).
Leia
Post by Captain Murphy
Post by Clams Canino
does not tell us *when* she gets her "images and feelings" - but she *does*
tell us that they "are not memories really". Just how much more do you
need spelled out, and how big do the letter need to be?
So, have you been an arrogant ass your whole life, or has the anonymity of
the Internet allowed you to compensate for your personal inadequecy by
being needlessly rude to strangers for no apparent reason?
Were you to Google me.... you'd find I'm one of the *least* anonymous people
ever on the internet.... Good retort though...... really made your points
and position shine right through. (not)

The first shot came from you... when you called a straightforward serious
answer a joke. When you do that... best to put on your asbestos jockstrap
and enjoy the flagellations.

-W
Captain Murphy
2005-07-01 04:24:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clams Canino
The first shot came from you... when you called a straightforward serious
answer a joke. When you do that... best to put on your asbestos jockstrap
and enjoy the flagellations.
You're a weak troll and hardly worth the effort.

<<plonk>>
Anybody
2005-07-01 06:57:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Captain Murphy
Post by Captain Murphy
Post by David Johnston
Post by Captain Murphy
Sure it does, from an apologistic standpoint. From a realistic
standpoint,
Post by Captain Murphy
Post by David Johnston
Post by Captain Murphy
no newborn is going to understand the concepts of "sad" or "beautiful."
Leia is not a newborn when she's asked.
I'm going to assume that's a joke.
No, it's not. You are deliberatly being obtuse (or naturally dim?). Leia
does not tell us *when* she gets her "images and feelings" - but she *does*
tell us that they "are not memories really". Just how much more do you
need spelled out, and how big do the letter need to be?
George Lucas is currently getting the 50ft neon lettering ready for the
scenes in the Super Special Edition DVD set. ;-)
Anybody
2005-06-24 04:18:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by H
Post by Anybody
Post by Tim Bruening
Some fans have expressed skepticism that Padme the strong willed Queen and
Senator would curl up and die no matter what!
Some fans have speculated that Palpatine drained her life force, possibly
to save Anakin.
Not very likely.
Post by Tim Bruening
Also, shouldn't the sight of her babies have restored her will to live?
Why?!? As some of us have repeatedly said, there are things like
post-natal depression that DO cause women to want to harm themselves
After the birth, yes.
It can occur before birth as well as well as sometimes turning away
their newborn baby.
Post by H
Post by Anybody
and / or their babies ... just Padmé seeing the babies means absolutely
nothing.
How many children do you have? Were you there when they were born? What
was their mother's reaction?
Irrelevant since ONE person's reaction isn't a good measure of the
reaction of EVERY woman.

The depression problems are real and do happen.
Tim Bruening
2005-06-24 07:15:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anybody
Post by Tim Bruening
Some fans have expressed skepticism that Padme the strong willed Queen and
Senator would curl up and die no matter what!
Some fans have speculated that Palpatine drained her life force, possibly
to save Anakin.
Not very likely.
Post by Tim Bruening
Also, shouldn't the sight of her babies have restored her will to live?
Why?!? As some of us have repeatedly said, there are things like
post-natal depression that DO cause women to want to harm themselves
and / or their babies ... just Padmé seeing the babies means absolutely
nothing.
Besides which, Padmé had just lost the "love of her life" - something
VERY few people EVER find, especially in theses days of getting married
after knowing each other for two weeks and then getting divorced again
two weeks later (gee, what a surprise!).
Deep depression DOES make people do things that are completely out of
character and seem strange to others. If she had done something else
and survived, she would almost certainly latter regret it, but she had
a broken heart and she gave up fighting the injuries and medical
"fixing" and died anyway.
IMHO, Obi-Wan should have said something like "Padme, please don't die!! You
are needed to help organize resistance to the Empire, raise your children, and
get Anakin back from the Dark Side!" (Padme still believed that there was good
in Anakin).
Jaime M. de Castellvi
2005-06-23 11:38:21 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:29:07 -0700, Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
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After Anakin dies and turns into a Jedi ghost, I expect the following
Anakin: Obi-Wan, I was told by the Emperor that I had killed Padme with
the force choke. How in the galaxy did she give birth to Luke and
Leia??????? She hadn't yet given birth when I choked her!!!!!
Obi-Wan: Your choke hold did not kill her. We don't know what did.
Oddly enough, the medical droid said that there was nothing medically
wrong with her. She had simply lost her will to live! Thankfully, we
were able to get your kids out before she died.
From there, they should wonder if Palpatine drain her life force, and
whatever happened to her spirit (did it get trapped by the Emperor?).
All of this, of course, is based on the superficial perception that
what we are seeing are "ghosts", with the further assumption that they
as limited in their perceptions as when they were flesh and blood,
which is certainly quite humorous in itself.

Cheers,

Jaime
Tim Bruening
2005-06-24 07:06:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:29:07 -0700, Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
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After Anakin dies and turns into a Jedi ghost, I expect the following
Anakin: Obi-Wan, I was told by the Emperor that I had killed Padme with
the force choke. How in the galaxy did she give birth to Luke and
Leia??????? She hadn't yet given birth when I choked her!!!!!
Obi-Wan: Your choke hold did not kill her. We don't know what did.
Oddly enough, the medical droid said that there was nothing medically
wrong with her. She had simply lost her will to live! Thankfully, we
were able to get your kids out before she died.
From there, they should wonder if Palpatine drain her life force, and
whatever happened to her spirit (did it get trapped by the Emperor?).
All of this, of course, is based on the superficial perception that
what we are seeing are "ghosts", with the further assumption that they
as limited in their perceptions as when they were flesh and blood,
which is certainly quite humorous in itself.
What ever their perceptions, I figure that the spirit Yoda, Obi-Wan, and
Anakin would have some interesting things to say to each other just after
Anakin "Ascended".

I wonder if Luke could get spirit Anakin to help him convince the remnants
of the Empire to lay down their arms. I figure that the sight of the ghost
of Darth Vader denouncing the Empire and endorsing the New Republic ought to
demoralize Imperial forces!
Brodieman
2005-06-24 08:37:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:29:07 -0700, Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
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After Anakin dies and turns into a Jedi ghost, I expect the following
Anakin: Obi-Wan, I was told by the Emperor that I had killed Padme with
the force choke. How in the galaxy did she give birth to Luke and
Leia??????? She hadn't yet given birth when I choked her!!!!!
Obi-Wan: Your choke hold did not kill her. We don't know what did.
Oddly enough, the medical droid said that there was nothing medically
wrong with her. She had simply lost her will to live! Thankfully, we
were able to get your kids out before she died.
From there, they should wonder if Palpatine drain her life force, and
whatever happened to her spirit (did it get trapped by the Emperor?).
All of this, of course, is based on the superficial perception that
what we are seeing are "ghosts", with the further assumption that they
as limited in their perceptions as when they were flesh and blood,
which is certainly quite humorous in itself.
What ever their perceptions, I figure that the spirit Yoda, Obi-Wan, and
Anakin would have some interesting things to say to each other just after
Anakin "Ascended".
I wonder if Luke could get spirit Anakin to help him convince the remnants
of the Empire to lay down their arms. I figure that the sight of the ghost
of Darth Vader denouncing the Empire and endorsing the New Republic ought to
demoralize Imperial forces!
They'd be demoralised enough, with the Emperor dead and the Death Star
gone.
Jaime M. de Castellvi
2005-06-24 11:23:27 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:37:14 +0000 (UTC), Brodieman
Post by Brodieman
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:29:07 -0700, Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
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After Anakin dies and turns into a Jedi ghost, I expect the following
Anakin: Obi-Wan, I was told by the Emperor that I had killed Padme with
the force choke. How in the galaxy did she give birth to Luke and
Leia??????? She hadn't yet given birth when I choked her!!!!!
Obi-Wan: Your choke hold did not kill her. We don't know what did.
Oddly enough, the medical droid said that there was nothing medically
wrong with her. She had simply lost her will to live! Thankfully, we
were able to get your kids out before she died.
From there, they should wonder if Palpatine drain her life force, and
whatever happened to her spirit (did it get trapped by the Emperor?).
All of this, of course, is based on the superficial perception that
what we are seeing are "ghosts", with the further assumption that they
as limited in their perceptions as when they were flesh and blood,
which is certainly quite humorous in itself.
What ever their perceptions, I figure that the spirit Yoda, Obi-Wan, and
Anakin would have some interesting things to say to each other just after
Anakin "Ascended".
I wonder if Luke could get spirit Anakin to help him convince the remnants
of the Empire to lay down their arms. I figure that the sight of the ghost
of Darth Vader denouncing the Empire and endorsing the New Republic ought to
demoralize Imperial forces!
They'd be demoralised enough, with the Emperor dead and the Death Star
gone.
And, leaving aside the fact that presumably not just everyone can see
these projections from the Force, just how many people would know that
Darth Vader was the legendary Anakin Skywalker (if they even remember
the latter).

Cheers,

Jaime
Tim Bruening
2005-06-25 05:58:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:37:14 +0000 (UTC), Brodieman
Post by Brodieman
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:29:07 -0700, Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
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After Anakin dies and turns into a Jedi ghost, I expect the following
Anakin: Obi-Wan, I was told by the Emperor that I had killed Padme with
the force choke. How in the galaxy did she give birth to Luke and
Leia??????? She hadn't yet given birth when I choked her!!!!!
Obi-Wan: Your choke hold did not kill her. We don't know what did.
Oddly enough, the medical droid said that there was nothing medically
wrong with her. She had simply lost her will to live! Thankfully, we
were able to get your kids out before she died.
From there, they should wonder if Palpatine drain her life force, and
whatever happened to her spirit (did it get trapped by the Emperor?).
All of this, of course, is based on the superficial perception that
what we are seeing are "ghosts", with the further assumption that they
as limited in their perceptions as when they were flesh and blood,
which is certainly quite humorous in itself.
What ever their perceptions, I figure that the spirit Yoda, Obi-Wan, and
Anakin would have some interesting things to say to each other just after
Anakin "Ascended".
I wonder if Luke could get spirit Anakin to help him convince the remnants
of the Empire to lay down their arms. I figure that the sight of the ghost
of Darth Vader denouncing the Empire and endorsing the New Republic ought to
demoralize Imperial forces!
They'd be demoralised enough, with the Emperor dead and the Death Star
gone.
And, leaving aside the fact that presumably not just everyone can see
these projections from the Force, just how many people would know that
Darth Vader was the legendary Anakin Skywalker (if they even remember
the latter).
I was thinking in terms of Anakin projecting his Darth Vader getup.
Jaime M. de Castellvi
2005-06-25 11:15:20 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 22:58:19 -0700, Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:37:14 +0000 (UTC), Brodieman
Post by Brodieman
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:29:07 -0700, Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
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After Anakin dies and turns into a Jedi ghost, I expect the following
Anakin: Obi-Wan, I was told by the Emperor that I had killed Padme with
the force choke. How in the galaxy did she give birth to Luke and
Leia??????? She hadn't yet given birth when I choked her!!!!!
Obi-Wan: Your choke hold did not kill her. We don't know what did.
Oddly enough, the medical droid said that there was nothing medically
wrong with her. She had simply lost her will to live! Thankfully, we
were able to get your kids out before she died.
From there, they should wonder if Palpatine drain her life force, and
whatever happened to her spirit (did it get trapped by the Emperor?).
All of this, of course, is based on the superficial perception that
what we are seeing are "ghosts", with the further assumption that they
as limited in their perceptions as when they were flesh and blood,
which is certainly quite humorous in itself.
What ever their perceptions, I figure that the spirit Yoda, Obi-Wan, and
Anakin would have some interesting things to say to each other just after
Anakin "Ascended".
I wonder if Luke could get spirit Anakin to help him convince the remnants
of the Empire to lay down their arms. I figure that the sight of the ghost
of Darth Vader denouncing the Empire and endorsing the New Republic ought to
demoralize Imperial forces!
They'd be demoralised enough, with the Emperor dead and the Death Star
gone.
And, leaving aside the fact that presumably not just everyone can see
these projections from the Force, just how many people would know that
Darth Vader was the legendary Anakin Skywalker (if they even remember
the latter).
I was thinking in terms of Anakin projecting his Darth Vader getup.
My guess is that would go over really well with the rebels.

Cheers,

Jaime
Tim Bruening
2005-06-25 14:15:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 22:58:19 -0700, Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:37:14 +0000 (UTC), Brodieman
Post by Brodieman
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:29:07 -0700, Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
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After Anakin dies and turns into a Jedi ghost, I expect the following
Anakin: Obi-Wan, I was told by the Emperor that I had killed Padme with
the force choke. How in the galaxy did she give birth to Luke and
Leia??????? She hadn't yet given birth when I choked her!!!!!
Obi-Wan: Your choke hold did not kill her. We don't know what did.
Oddly enough, the medical droid said that there was nothing medically
wrong with her. She had simply lost her will to live! Thankfully, we
were able to get your kids out before she died.
From there, they should wonder if Palpatine drain her life force, and
whatever happened to her spirit (did it get trapped by the Emperor?).
All of this, of course, is based on the superficial perception that
what we are seeing are "ghosts", with the further assumption that they
as limited in their perceptions as when they were flesh and blood,
which is certainly quite humorous in itself.
What ever their perceptions, I figure that the spirit Yoda, Obi-Wan, and
Anakin would have some interesting things to say to each other just after
Anakin "Ascended".
I wonder if Luke could get spirit Anakin to help him convince the remnants
of the Empire to lay down their arms. I figure that the sight of the ghost
of Darth Vader denouncing the Empire and endorsing the New Republic ought to
demoralize Imperial forces!
They'd be demoralised enough, with the Emperor dead and the Death Star
gone.
And, leaving aside the fact that presumably not just everyone can see
these projections from the Force, just how many people would know that
Darth Vader was the legendary Anakin Skywalker (if they even remember
the latter).
I was thinking in terms of Anakin projecting his Darth Vader getup.
My guess is that would go over really well with the rebels.
Anakin would only project the Darth Vader getup for the Imperials.
Jaime M. de Castellvi
2005-06-26 15:04:35 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 07:15:42 -0700, Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 22:58:19 -0700, Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:37:14 +0000 (UTC), Brodieman
Post by Brodieman
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:29:07 -0700, Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
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After Anakin dies and turns into a Jedi ghost, I expect the following
Anakin: Obi-Wan, I was told by the Emperor that I had killed Padme with
the force choke. How in the galaxy did she give birth to Luke and
Leia??????? She hadn't yet given birth when I choked her!!!!!
Obi-Wan: Your choke hold did not kill her. We don't know what did.
Oddly enough, the medical droid said that there was nothing medically
wrong with her. She had simply lost her will to live! Thankfully, we
were able to get your kids out before she died.
From there, they should wonder if Palpatine drain her life force, and
whatever happened to her spirit (did it get trapped by the Emperor?).
All of this, of course, is based on the superficial perception that
what we are seeing are "ghosts", with the further assumption that they
as limited in their perceptions as when they were flesh and blood,
which is certainly quite humorous in itself.
What ever their perceptions, I figure that the spirit Yoda, Obi-Wan, and
Anakin would have some interesting things to say to each other just after
Anakin "Ascended".
I wonder if Luke could get spirit Anakin to help him convince the remnants
of the Empire to lay down their arms. I figure that the sight of the ghost
of Darth Vader denouncing the Empire and endorsing the New Republic ought to
demoralize Imperial forces!
They'd be demoralised enough, with the Emperor dead and the Death Star
gone.
And, leaving aside the fact that presumably not just everyone can see
these projections from the Force, just how many people would know that
Darth Vader was the legendary Anakin Skywalker (if they even remember
the latter).
I was thinking in terms of Anakin projecting his Darth Vader getup.
My guess is that would go over really well with the rebels.
Anakin would only project the Darth Vader getup for the Imperials.
Tim, just strictly out of curiosity, you wouldn't happen to be related
in any way to a young gentleman by the name of Dan Tropea, would you?

Cheers,

Jaime
Brodieman
2005-06-26 15:33:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 07:15:42 -0700, Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 22:58:19 -0700, Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:37:14 +0000 (UTC), Brodieman
Post by Brodieman
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:29:07 -0700, Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
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After Anakin dies and turns into a Jedi ghost, I expect the following
Anakin: Obi-Wan, I was told by the Emperor that I had killed Padme with
the force choke. How in the galaxy did she give birth to Luke and
Leia??????? She hadn't yet given birth when I choked her!!!!!
Obi-Wan: Your choke hold did not kill her. We don't know what did.
Oddly enough, the medical droid said that there was nothing medically
wrong with her. She had simply lost her will to live! Thankfully, we
were able to get your kids out before she died.
From there, they should wonder if Palpatine drain her life force, and
whatever happened to her spirit (did it get trapped by the Emperor?).
All of this, of course, is based on the superficial perception that
what we are seeing are "ghosts", with the further assumption that they
as limited in their perceptions as when they were flesh and blood,
which is certainly quite humorous in itself.
What ever their perceptions, I figure that the spirit Yoda, Obi-Wan, and
Anakin would have some interesting things to say to each other just after
Anakin "Ascended".
I wonder if Luke could get spirit Anakin to help him convince the remnants
of the Empire to lay down their arms. I figure that the sight of the ghost
of Darth Vader denouncing the Empire and endorsing the New Republic ought to
demoralize Imperial forces!
They'd be demoralised enough, with the Emperor dead and the Death Star
gone.
And, leaving aside the fact that presumably not just everyone can see
these projections from the Force, just how many people would know that
Darth Vader was the legendary Anakin Skywalker (if they even remember
the latter).
I was thinking in terms of Anakin projecting his Darth Vader getup.
My guess is that would go over really well with the rebels.
Anakin would only project the Darth Vader getup for the Imperials.
Tim, just strictly out of curiosity, you wouldn't happen to be related
in any way to a young gentleman by the name of Dan Tropea, would you?
Cheers,
Jaime
Now thats a name i've not heard in a long time...
Tim Bruening
2005-06-27 08:53:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 07:15:42 -0700, Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 22:58:19 -0700, Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:37:14 +0000 (UTC), Brodieman
Post by Brodieman
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:29:07 -0700, Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
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After Anakin dies and turns into a Jedi ghost, I expect the following
Anakin: Obi-Wan, I was told by the Emperor that I had killed Padme with
the force choke. How in the galaxy did she give birth to Luke and
Leia??????? She hadn't yet given birth when I choked her!!!!!
Obi-Wan: Your choke hold did not kill her. We don't know what did.
Oddly enough, the medical droid said that there was nothing medically
wrong with her. She had simply lost her will to live! Thankfully, we
were able to get your kids out before she died.
From there, they should wonder if Palpatine drain her life force, and
whatever happened to her spirit (did it get trapped by the Emperor?).
All of this, of course, is based on the superficial perception that
what we are seeing are "ghosts", with the further assumption that they
as limited in their perceptions as when they were flesh and blood,
which is certainly quite humorous in itself.
What ever their perceptions, I figure that the spirit Yoda, Obi-Wan, and
Anakin would have some interesting things to say to each other just after
Anakin "Ascended".
I wonder if Luke could get spirit Anakin to help him convince the remnants
of the Empire to lay down their arms. I figure that the sight of the ghost
of Darth Vader denouncing the Empire and endorsing the New Republic ought to
demoralize Imperial forces!
They'd be demoralised enough, with the Emperor dead and the Death Star
gone.
And, leaving aside the fact that presumably not just everyone can see
these projections from the Force, just how many people would know that
Darth Vader was the legendary Anakin Skywalker (if they even remember
the latter).
I was thinking in terms of Anakin projecting his Darth Vader getup.
My guess is that would go over really well with the rebels.
Anakin would only project the Darth Vader getup for the Imperials.
Tim, just strictly out of curiosity, you wouldn't happen to be related
in any way to a young gentleman by the name of Dan Tropea, would you?
No. Who is he?
Jaime M. de Castellvi
2005-06-29 00:46:35 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 01:53:52 -0700, Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 07:15:42 -0700, Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 22:58:19 -0700, Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:37:14 +0000 (UTC), Brodieman
Post by Brodieman
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:29:07 -0700, Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
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After Anakin dies and turns into a Jedi ghost, I expect the following
Anakin: Obi-Wan, I was told by the Emperor that I had killed Padme with
the force choke. How in the galaxy did she give birth to Luke and
Leia??????? She hadn't yet given birth when I choked her!!!!!
Obi-Wan: Your choke hold did not kill her. We don't know what did.
Oddly enough, the medical droid said that there was nothing medically
wrong with her. She had simply lost her will to live! Thankfully, we
were able to get your kids out before she died.
From there, they should wonder if Palpatine drain her life force, and
whatever happened to her spirit (did it get trapped by the Emperor?).
All of this, of course, is based on the superficial perception that
what we are seeing are "ghosts", with the further assumption that they
as limited in their perceptions as when they were flesh and blood,
which is certainly quite humorous in itself.
What ever their perceptions, I figure that the spirit Yoda, Obi-Wan, and
Anakin would have some interesting things to say to each other just after
Anakin "Ascended".
I wonder if Luke could get spirit Anakin to help him convince the remnants
of the Empire to lay down their arms. I figure that the sight of the ghost
of Darth Vader denouncing the Empire and endorsing the New Republic ought to
demoralize Imperial forces!
They'd be demoralised enough, with the Emperor dead and the Death Star
gone.
And, leaving aside the fact that presumably not just everyone can see
these projections from the Force, just how many people would know that
Darth Vader was the legendary Anakin Skywalker (if they even remember
the latter).
I was thinking in terms of Anakin projecting his Darth Vader getup.
My guess is that would go over really well with the rebels.
Anakin would only project the Darth Vader getup for the Imperials.
Tim, just strictly out of curiosity, you wouldn't happen to be related
in any way to a young gentleman by the name of Dan Tropea, would you?
No. Who is he?
Well, okay then. I guess enough time has gone by that it should be
reasonably safe now. Perhaps it is time for me to engage in a little
deepthroating too, at long last, to deliver myself of this wonderful
secret that I have cherished in my bossom for so long. I'll point
y'all in the general direction of things, and then anyone inclined to
engage in what by his or her own wits may pass for "investigative
journalism" can dig up the myriad of little details and juicy
supporting facts to be had for the sheer fun of it.

Dan Tropea is not an actual person, at least not in the virtual sense.
Rather, s/he/it is what very probably constitutes the most inspired,
creative, playful and, quite frankly, brilliant extended troll to have
been perpetrated around these Usenet parts since I've been around. As
a very happy few (like Cronan and Gharlane) had known from the
beginning, and as a larger contingency of regulars of various of these
groups have probably come to suspect of late, the amazing minds behind
this endeavor are those of the ageless Ancient Ones (Jedi or Sith? I
guess that very much depends on your point of view...) known as
Captain Infinity and Blackhawk (oh, and a handful of others who
helped, tacitly or otherwise).

It is finally time to project the light of truth down that fun
corridor of our diversely shared past, to lay the troubled soul of Dan
Tropea to rest in the ageless halls of usenet Valhalla, and to allow
the deft hands who molded the clay into life to have the just dues and
credit that they have so richly deserved for so long. I think that
many if not most of the folks who lived it in its entirety will agree
that the Dan Tropea troll is the most amazing work of usenet
performance art that has been our privilege to live, over the last
decade. Like the great Terran works of all the ages, this one too is
an enduring monument to what the human species has to offer at its
creative best.

Cheers,

Jaime
J.
2005-07-01 02:18:27 UTC
Permalink
I am Dan Tropea!


J.

"That Curséd Initial"

--Your beak is blinkin' like a blinkin' beacon!--
jdn
2005-07-02 19:51:56 UTC
Permalink
I am Dan Tropea.

jdn
Jaime M. de Castellvi
2005-07-02 21:46:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by jdn
I am Dan Tropea.
jdn
I am Dan Tropea, and my wife is also Dan Tropea.

Cheers,

Jaime
Lefty Skywalker
2005-07-02 23:05:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
Post by jdn
I am Dan Tropea.
jdn
I am Dan Tropea, and my wife is also Dan Tropea.
I am Dan O. Miller Tropea!
--
Daniel O. Miller

"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the
fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true
science. Whosoever does not know it and can no longer marvel, is as good
as dead, and his eyes are dimmed." - Albert Einstein

WWYD? (-o-) <*>

(hotmail addy is a red herring; I'm darth dot lefty at gee em ay eye el)
Tim Bruening
2005-10-13 08:28:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by J.
I am Dan Tropea!
Hi, Dan!
Post by J.
J.
"That Curséd Initial"
--Your beak is blinkin' like a blinkin' beacon!--
Jaime M. de Castellvi
2005-06-27 10:21:30 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 07:15:42 -0700, Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 22:58:19 -0700, Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:37:14 +0000 (UTC), Brodieman
Post by Brodieman
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:29:07 -0700, Tim Bruening
Post by Tim Bruening
3
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After Anakin dies and turns into a Jedi ghost, I expect the following
Anakin: Obi-Wan, I was told by the Emperor that I had killed Padme with
the force choke. How in the galaxy did she give birth to Luke and
Leia??????? She hadn't yet given birth when I choked her!!!!!
Obi-Wan: Your choke hold did not kill her. We don't know what did.
Oddly enough, the medical droid said that there was nothing medically
wrong with her. She had simply lost her will to live! Thankfully, we
were able to get your kids out before she died.
From there, they should wonder if Palpatine drain her life force, and
whatever happened to her spirit (did it get trapped by the Emperor?).
All of this, of course, is based on the superficial perception that
what we are seeing are "ghosts", with the further assumption that they
as limited in their perceptions as when they were flesh and blood,
which is certainly quite humorous in itself.
What ever their perceptions, I figure that the spirit Yoda, Obi-Wan, and
Anakin would have some interesting things to say to each other just after
Anakin "Ascended".
I wonder if Luke could get spirit Anakin to help him convince the remnants
of the Empire to lay down their arms. I figure that the sight of the ghost
of Darth Vader denouncing the Empire and endorsing the New Republic ought to
demoralize Imperial forces!
They'd be demoralised enough, with the Emperor dead and the Death Star
gone.
And, leaving aside the fact that presumably not just everyone can see
these projections from the Force, just how many people would know that
Darth Vader was the legendary Anakin Skywalker (if they even remember
the latter).
I was thinking in terms of Anakin projecting his Darth Vader getup.
My guess is that would go over really well with the rebels.
Anakin would only project the Darth Vader getup for the Imperials.
Then they'd probably accuse the Rebels of faking it with an enhanced
hologram.

Cheers,

Jaime
William December Starr
2005-06-26 12:58:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
And, leaving aside the fact that presumably not just everyone can
see these projections from the Force, just how many people would
know that Darth Vader was the legendary Anakin Skywalker (if they
even remember the latter).
I was thinking in terms of Anakin projecting his Darth Vader
getup.
Oh yeah, a ghostly projection of some guy in a Darth Vader costume.
That'd be real persuasive.
--
William December Starr <***@panix.com>
Tim Bruening
2005-06-27 08:53:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by William December Starr
Post by Tim Bruening
Post by Jaime M. de Castellvi
And, leaving aside the fact that presumably not just everyone can
see these projections from the Force, just how many people would
know that Darth Vader was the legendary Anakin Skywalker (if they
even remember the latter).
I was thinking in terms of Anakin projecting his Darth Vader
getup.
Oh yeah, a ghostly projection of some guy in a Darth Vader costume.
That'd be real persuasive.
Okay, forget the Anakin spirit. Just project holo recordings of Darth
Vader and dub in anti-Empire propaganda!
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