Padme's death and other thoughts on reviewing epIII

[Tim Bruening]

Just seen EpIII for the 3rd time. I'm still noticing stuff that gets me
wondering. Thank you GL for not spelling out every little thing in big
bold letters this time - nice to keep some mystery about the whole
thing.
Stuff like the relationship between Palpatine and Anakin.
I'm guessing the movie's been out long enough now not to need spoiler
space...
Personally I like the idea that Palpatine, as Darth Plagueis'
apprentice (confirmed in the novelisation), 'influenced the
midichlorians' to create life. Why else would Lucas needed to have
introduced the idea of the midichlorians otherwise? or the mysterious
virgin birth for that matter? It also introduces a nice father/son
symmetry to the OT and PT.
Second, let's forget this nonsense that I still read here that it was
Luke and not Anakin who was the Chosen One. Anakin brought balance to
the force. At the end of EpIII there are two Sith and two Jedi. That's
balance folks. Just not what the Jedi were expecting. Yoda himself says
the prophecy could have been misread. The events of ROTJ are separate.
The prophecy had been fulfilled 20 or so years before.
Now for some speculation...
Padme knew there was good in Anakin/Vader, just as her son would
ultimately come to realise. To the Emperor this makes her a threat as
she could turn Anakin back from the dark side. She is right. There is
good in him. The scene of Anakin/Vader crying after killing the
seperatists is crucial. It says that he knows he is making a mistake,
he knows he's screwed up. But he can't go back. He still has a
conscience, but it's trapped by the evil that Sidious has encouraged in
him. He has been conned, manipulated and enslaved again.
Aware of the danger that Padme poses, Sidious uses his power over life
itself, to kill her, ensuring the loyalty of his apprentice. By lying-
saying that Anakin killed her by force choking her, he increases
Vader's anger and dark side strength . Remember Vader says that it
could not be possible as he could sense she was still alive on
Mustafar. The medic droid tells Obi Wan there is nothing physically
wrong with Padme, but she is dying anyway.
Thoughts?

If Darth Vader/Anakin ever realizes the above, then Katie bar the door!

[Tim Bruening]

Agree with most everything you say but the reason for Padme's death. I think she truly died because Anakin
wasn't hers anymore. She needed AS as much as AS needed her and Obi-Wan to balance his life. Without OWK, AS turned to
the dark side. Without AS, Padme' had no reason to live.
I am glad you see like me the issue about balancing the force. The Old Republic deserved to die because the
people expected too much from it and not enough from themselves. The Jedi became too involved in politics and therefore
became more vulnerable. It was up to a more innocent, freedom fighting group to fight for a New Republic. DS merely
helped get rid of the baggage and opened the door for the future freedom fighters. When push came to shove, AS showed
up and saved the day.

That reasoning has occured to me too.

[Tim Bruening]

Agree with most everything you say but the reason for Padme's death. I
think she truly died because Anakin
wasn't hers anymore. She needed AS as much as AS needed her and Obi-Wan
to balance his life. Without OWK, AS turned to
the dark side. Without AS, Padme' had no reason to live.
I am glad you see like me the issue about balancing the force. The Old
Republic deserved to die because the
people expected too much from it and not enough from themselves. The Jedi
became too involved in politics and therefore
became more vulnerable. It was up to a more innocent, freedom fighting
group to fight for a New Republic. DS merely
helped get rid of the baggage and opened the door for the future freedom
fighters. When push came to shove, AS showed
up and saved the day.

What would have happened if Darth Vader had killed Palpatine immediately after
disposing of the Jedi? Would there still have been a Rebellion and a New
Republic?

What if both Palpatine and Vader had died at the end of ROTS? Who or what would
have taken over? Would the galaxy have crumbled into chaos without a mature
Rebel Alliance to take over?

[Tim Bruening]

Agree with most everything you say but the reason for Padme's death. I
think she truly died because Anakin
wasn't hers anymore. She needed AS as much as AS needed her and Obi-Wan
to balance his life. Without OWK, AS turned to
the dark side. Without AS, Padme' had no reason to live.

Arrgh.
Of course she had reasons to live. She had two children who needed to be
protected from the Emperor and would probably like to have a mother raise
them, especially since she's gonna have a helluva time getting child support
payments from the father. The democracy that she'd spent her life fighting
for was falling to pieces - Senators Organa and Mothma didn't go crying over
spilt milk over that - they went and started the Rebellion - and Padme would
have been a big asset to that cause. And from her last words, she still
hadn't given up entirely on AS.
While I like ROTS overall, it really trashed the character of Padme. This
wasn't the strong Queen/Senator/Fighter that that I'd seen in the prior
movies.
And all they needed to fix it was to get rid of one stupid line "Medically,
there's nothing wrong with her... she's lost the will to live."

Hence the fanwank that Palpatine drained the life force from her.

[Tim Bruening]

The balance thing still doesn't float for me.
Yeah, Anakin for some very ridiculous reason did not know that his
children lived, but the balance did not exist while Luke and Leia did
not perish along with Padme.

Padme still looked pregnant during the funeral, so Vader's agents would
tell him that Padme's child died with her.

Leia, Luke, Yoda, and Obi Wan were alive at the end of III. (4 Jedi)
The Emperor and Vader (2 Sith)

But Luke and Leia hadn't been trained yet, so the score is 2 to 2.

I've read in other threads that the Sith could be considered to be a
source of an unhealthy unbalance, as they are evil. It would be like a
cancer on the Force, which Anakin needed to eliminate.

[Tim Bruening]

With regards to Padme I think that Anakin unknowingly used the Dark
Side of the Force to kill her. I agree that once she saw her children
she could not have simply lost the will to survive. Her character was
never that weak.

He knowingly Force choked her.

[Jimbo]

but she was still alive, OWK stopped Anakin before he killed her and
the medic droid confirmed nothing physically wrong with her. So why did
she die?

Post by Tim Bruening

With regards to Padme I think that Anakin unknowingly used the Dark
Side of the Force to kill her. I agree that once she saw her children
she could not have simply lost the will to survive. Her character was
never that weak.

He knowingly Force choked her.

[That Guy]

Post by Jimbo
but she was still alive, OWK stopped Anakin before he killed her and
the medic droid confirmed nothing physically wrong with her. So why did
she die?

Post by Tim Bruening

With regards to Padme I think that Anakin unknowingly used the Dark
Side of the Force to kill her. I agree that once she saw her children
she could not have simply lost the will to survive. Her character was
never that weak.

He knowingly Force choked her.

Palpatine killed her, he was trained by Palgeius and could create and extend
life, why not snuff out a weakened life force which would result in Anakin
coming over to the darkside completely...

[Tim Bruening]

Post by That Guy

Post by Jimbo
but she was still alive, OWK stopped Anakin before he killed her and
the medic droid confirmed nothing physically wrong with her. So why did
she die?

Post by Tim Bruening

With regards to Padme I think that Anakin unknowingly used the Dark
Side of the Force to kill her. I agree that once she saw her children
she could not have simply lost the will to survive. Her character was
never that weak.

He knowingly Force choked her.

Palpatine killed her, he was trained by Palgeius and could create and extend
life, why not snuff out a weakened life force which would result in Anakin
coming over to the darkside completely...

Is there any chance that Obi-Won and Yoda will figure out the above, and acquire
proof? If so, they might try to use that info to turn Darth Vader against
Palpatine.

[Tim Bruening]

Post by Jimbo
but she was still alive, OWK stopped Anakin before he killed her and
the medic droid confirmed nothing physically wrong with her. So why did
she die?

I expect Obi and Yoda to launch an investigation! The results may shake up
the universe! If they could implicate Palpatine in the death of Padme (by
draining off her life force via the Dark Side), they might be able to peel
Darth Vader away from him, weakening the Empire.

Post by Jimbo

Post by Tim Bruening

With regards to Padme I think that Anakin unknowingly used the Dark
Side of the Force to kill her. I agree that once she saw her children
she could not have simply lost the will to survive. Her character was
never that weak.

He knowingly Force choked her.

[Tim Bruening]

Second, let's forget this nonsense that I still read here that it was
Luke and not Anakin who was the Chosen One. Anakin brought balance to
the force. At the end of EpIII there are two Sith and two Jedi. That's
balance folks. Just not what the Jedi were expecting. Yoda himself says
the prophecy could have been misread. The events of ROTJ are separate.
The prophecy had been fulfilled 20 or so years before.

According to Lucas himself, it *is* the events of ROTJ that show the
prophecy being fulfilled, when Vader kills the Emperor. As far as I can
tell, he still hasn't elaborated on what "balance" means specifically,
but the fact that Palpatine gets 86'd seems to be the key.
Thus, Vader's fulfilling of the prophecy, proving himself to be the
"Chosen One," would sort of be the new twist when the movies are
theoretically seen 1-6 (not that Lucas really insists that the
trilogies should be seen in any particular order anymore.)

Now for some speculation...
Aware of the danger that Padme poses, Sidious uses his power over life
itself, to kill her, ensuring the loyalty of his apprentice.

I think they would've been a little more explicit on a matter as
important as her death, had this been the case. But I don't think
Palpatine had that kind of control over the Force. And if you're
relating that power to the ability to save people from death, he admits
he never had it in the first place.

It might be easier to use the Dark Side to drain away life than it would be
to use the Dark Side to create or sustain life.

[Tim Bruening]

At the end of EpIII there are two Sith and two Jedi. That's
balance folks.

Erm, apart from all the Jedi dotted around the galaxy that Vader will have
to hunt down in the coming years.
Trust me, the TV series will be just like Highlander, Jedi popping up
everywhere.

"Every week, Darth Vader must off another Jedi, while fending off agents of
the Rebellion and possibly Separatist agents too....."

I think perhaps the answer involves the Imperial see-saw that Mr Vader
invents to take his mind off things.

What does the Imperial see-saw do?

[Lefty Skywalker]

Post by Tim Bruening

At the end of EpIII there are two Sith and two Jedi. That's
balance folks.

Erm, apart from all the Jedi dotted around the galaxy that Vader will have
to hunt down in the coming years.
Trust me, the TV series will be just like Highlander, Jedi popping up
everywhere.

"Every week, Darth Vader must off another Jedi, while fending off agents of
the Rebellion and possibly Separatist agents too....."

...always hoping that the next leap will be the leap home.
--
Daniel O. Miller

"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the
fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true
science. Whosoever does not know it and can no longer marvel, is as good
as dead, and his eyes are dimmed." - Albert Einstein

WWYD? (-o-) <*>

(hotmail addy is a red herring; I'm darth dot lefty at gee em ay eye el)

[Tim Bruening]

Second, let's forget this nonsense that I still read here that it was
Luke and not Anakin who was the Chosen One. Anakin brought balance to
the force. At the end of EpIII there are two Sith and two Jedi. That's
balance folks. Just not what the Jedi were expecting. Yoda himself says
the prophecy could have been misread. The events of ROTJ are separate.
The prophecy had been fulfilled 20 or so years before.

According to Lucas himself, it *is* the events of ROTJ that show the
prophecy being fulfilled, when Vader kills the Emperor. As far as I can
tell, he still hasn't elaborated on what "balance" means specifically,
but the fact that Palpatine gets 86'd seems to be the key.
Thus, Vader's fulfilling of the prophecy, proving himself to be the
"Chosen One," would sort of be the new twist when the movies are
theoretically seen 1-6 (not that Lucas really insists that the
trilogies should be seen in any particular order anymore.)

Oh man, how perfect would it have been to have had a mention of that
made in Vader's dying scene in ROTJ? Sure, we might not need it spelled
out, but to have had Sebastian Shaw say something like "Now there is
balance. Maintain it, my son." would've been great...

Now for some speculation...
Aware of the danger that Padme poses, Sidious uses his power over life
itself, to kill her, ensuring the loyalty of his apprentice.

I think they would've been a little more explicit on a matter as
important as her death, had this been the case. But I don't think
Palpatine had that kind of control over the Force. And if you're
relating that power to the ability to save people from death, he admits
he never had it in the first place.

When Palpatine arrives on Mustafar and places his hand on Anakin's
head, he's basically willing him to live. Perhaps - PERHAPS - Anakin
thinks so strongly about living (for Padme) that it somehow......eh,
now that I type it, saying "it sucks the life out of Padme thru the
Force" seems kinda silly.
Let's just pretend I stopped at the "maintain the balance" part. ;p

A Force transfusion!!!!!:)